In this episode, we have a conversation with Dr. Matthew Spond, an anesthesiologist here at UAMS. We discuss his journey to and through medicine to date, his advice for students, the field of anesthesiology, etc. Dr. Spond is a great advisor for students and always cheers them on – we cannot wait for you to learn more about him!
Jasmin: Welcome to the next episode of Mentor Spotlight, your very own student led podcast to help connect students to faculty mentors. I’m Jasmin Cotoco, and I’m Weijia Shi, your hosts for this episode. Today we have Dr. Matthew Spond, an associate professor in the department of anesthesiology. Dr. Spond completed his medical training right here at UAMS for both medical school and residency. He’s a diplomat of the American Board of Anesthesiology, which means that he has met the highest standards first practice in anesthesiology.
Weijia: He coordinates the M3 selective for anesthesiology as well as the M4 elective course. In addition, he is a faculty advisor for the Anesthesiology Interest Group, and he is a house advisor. He loves to help students truly cares for them and is always available to help us in any possible way. You will hear him say, “always hearing for you” whenever you become his mentee, and he truly means it. So without further delay, let’s get started. Hi Doctor Spond!
Dr. Spond: Hi, how are y’all? Thank you for having me.
Jasmin: Thank you for joining us today.
Weijia: Yes, can we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself?
Dr. Spond: Absolutely. So, native of Arkansas, I was born and raised in North Little Rock. I went to high school here in Little Rock Catholic High School for boys. I went to college at the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. I got a degree in civil engineering. I did not have medicine on my horizons whatsoever, thankfully, took more pressure off. And then I worked as an engineer for about four and a half years, and in 2004 I began medical school here at UAMS. I’ve been here ever since.
Jasmin: Awesome. So we know that you’re in anesthesiologist, of course. But how else would you describe your job title? What other positions do you hold?
Dr. Spond: I guess technically, and I’m not real big on job titles. But technically I am an associate professor, and tentatively, as of July one of this year, I’ll be the vice Chair for education for our department of anesthesiology here. And I’m a house faculty advisor for academic house Lowe.
Jasmin: Go Lowe. Yeah, we’re both part of Lowe.
Weijia: yes we are.
Jasmin: So you mentioned that you made that transition from engineering to medicine. I’ve heard like some people make that transition. And whenever I hear it, I’m like, wow, that’s really drastic. So could you talk about more of what made you transition to medicine?
Dr. Spond: Absolutely. I like technical topics of all sorts. And I thought I was gonna get a Ph.D. in structural engineering. I thought that was going to be the rest of my life and then sort of life happened and I ended up in medical school. So how does that happen? Well, I found when I was working most productively as an engineer, I wasn’t really interacting with many people. I was interacting with the computer and calculator and pencil and paper. And I like to talk. And so did my mind sort of searched around what I wanted to do. I thought about law school, and then I, you know, for better or worse, I thought, you know what, I’ve always heard medical schools hard. I like technical topics. I like to help people. I like to interact with people. Let me give it a shot. And I looked into it, and I didn’t have that many prerequisites that I hadn’t already had. And so I took the four prerequisites that I didn’t have over the course of about a year and a half. And I applied, and I got in, and it’s been one of the best thing that’s ever happened to me, to say the least.
Jasmin: Awesome. I’ve heard a lot of stories of, like, people transitioning from computer science or like engineering from, like, a more technical, less people oriented field, to like computers or like to medicine, and I think it’s just crazy how you’re willing to go back to school again and go through all of that to get to where you are today. So yeah.
Dr. Spond: I was very fortunate. I wasn’t attached to anybody. I had no dependents. I had no debt. And sort of the world was my oyster, and I was willing to put in the time and energy and effort. And I’m very thankful that I did.
Weijia: Okay. And anesthesia is not a field that’s on a lot of people’s radar, especially at the beginning. So we were curious how did you decide on anesthesia?
Dr. Spond: Absolutely. So, it’s interesting cause the very first week of my M1 year I always sat in the back. Everybody came to class, and we had a lot of classes. And I sat next to a classmate of mine whose mother was an anesthesiologist, and I explained to her that, you know, I was an engineer by training already. She said, “oh, you’re gonna go in to anesthesiology”. So that was the first time I’ve ever heard. That was in M1 year, and then a couple times as the as the years progressed, I heard a few more times. And back then, way back in the Dark Ages when I was a med student here, every M3 had to do one week with what was called the surgical subspecialties, which was one week with Anesthesiology, one week with ENT, Urology, and Orthopedics. So we all were exposed for at least one week to anesthesiology, and it was Monday morning at about 9:00 o’clock on my one week of anesthesiology that it finally clicked in my head, that epiphany, Eureka moment. I know what those people were talking about; this is what I want to do. And it’s heart, lung, CNS physiology, and pharmacology. It’s all the real time, good ideas, bad ideas, you’re gonna find out. I have problems and make mistakes all the time. Fortunately, they’re dealt with almost exclusively in real time, so I go home with very, very few problems. And that’s one of the things I really like about it. One of many things I would like.
Weijia: Can you describe what a typical day looks like?
Dr. Spond: Sure! So a typical day, the operating rooms here, the main OR, main operating rooms here at UAMS. We start our cases typically on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays or Fridays at 7:00. On Tuesdays, we started a little bit later at 8:00 because we have didactics. And so on a generic weekday, I get here at about 6:15, plus or minus. It seems really early, and it would have kind of blown me away if I have been told that. laughs I didn’t it’s gonna be getting up at 4:30 for the rest of my life, but you get used to it. I get here and I go see patients in the preoperative holding area for surgical cases that had been pretty well delineated the day before, unless I’m assigned to the add on room, and those are cases that have been added overnight. And you get to meet those patients in real time. And like I said, I really enjoy talking with people and people say, “well, if you like talking with people, why did you go into a field where patients are all asleep?” And that’s a good question too. But I get to deal with patients and talk with patients and interact with patients when they’re at their most vulnerable. They have a major operation ahead of them. There’s no such thing as a minor operation. They’re worried about the diagnosis: is this cancer, is it not? Is it curable? Is it not? What’s gonna happen to me? They’ve had to rearrange their life, arrange for childcare, elder care, pet care, arrange with their work, with your school, etc, etc, etc. So they have a whole bunch of unknowns in the back of their head, just kind of swirling around, and they’re really at their most vulnerable. And you know, I get extreme pleasure of telling them, “you know, we’re gonna work hard to have a boring day for you, unless you’re gonna have a baby here, excitement in the operating room is usually not a good thing. So we’re gonna work hard to have a boring day.”
Jasmin: I hear a lot of surgeons I’ve shadowed in the past say that, and I think that brings extreme comfort to a lot of patients. They laugh at it. It’s a good laugh. And then they’re like, that’s very comforting to hear.
Dr. Spond: Exactly, exactly.
Weijia: Boring day’s our goal.
Jasmin: Yeah and I think a lot of people have that stereotype about. I know we definitely interested in anesthesiology; she’s doing the preceptorship. But anesthesiology isn’t on my radar, but I always poke at Weijia and say, “they just put patients to sleep”. But now that you’re telling me this, like, how much is actually involved with comforting the patient, you know, it’s at their most vulnerable point, I guess I can stop poking at Weijia for that.
Dr. Spond: I have a favorite little Venn diagram. I’ve come to realize like Venn diagrams. Weijia has seen it, where I draw in the middle. I draw small circle, and I say this is anesthesia. This is how much propofol to give a patient, how to put a breathing tube in, and that takes some amount of time, a couple of years. And then I draw much larger circle all the way around, and I said this is anesthesiology. This is a bottomless pit of learning. There’s not many things in all of medicine that I can legitimately say I don’t need to know that. Yes, the answer is I do need to know that because you could have the patient, the procedure, and the time. It could be a healthy patient and normal hours going for routine procedure, or it could be a very sick patient in off hours going for very, you know, high complex, high morbidity procedure. So I need to know everything I possibly can.
Weijia: I’ve heard that a good four or five times now. Can you describe but one of your most memorable experiences, either from Med school or residency or attending?
Dr. Spond: Most memorable experiences. I’ve had some moments; I’ll try to keep these non-scary moments. Probably most memorable experience in medicine was probably, frankly, the birth of our third child, which was here. So it was at work, and it was about six years ago, a little over six years ago. And so it was in an operating room on the fifth floor, labor and delivery where I trained as a resident. I had been a medical student, I trained as a resident. I’ve been attending in this room and now I’m the patient’s significant other, and it is different, even though you’re at your place of work. It’s different to be in sort of this role of the patient. You understand that it’s a big deal.
Jasmin: And I think at that point, since you’re experiencing what a patient might feel like, you realize how much they feel like they don’t have control over the situation they’re in; versus where you’re an actual doctor for a patient, you have all the control.
Dr. Spond: Absolutely, absolutely. That’s one of the silver linings of going into medicine. Unfortunately, I haven’t had to do it much. But when you have a loved one or a family friend who’s in the hospital and is sick, you can go to their physician and say, “tell me what’s going on.” You don’t have to ask for a watered down version. You just say, “just speak to me, and I’ll listen. And I’ll understand what you’re talking about.” You don’t have to get the water down version, so.
Jasmin: So speaking of family, what are just some other things that you like to do outside of your job with your family or just, you know, hobbies that you have?
Dr. Spond: For sure. I’m married. I have three kids. One just turned 15 a week ago. She’s a fantastic ballet dancer. We did that whole last week. I have a 13, almost 13 year old son, and then our youngest is six. My wife’s a nurse, but she’s been staying at home for the past eight or ten years. She’s thinking about going back into the workforce now that our youngest is starting kindergarten. Um, I would like to say I like to do some amount of exercise. I know it doesn’t look like it, but I like some amount of physical exercise. And I love to read so.. and cook.. and eat.
Jasmin: I think we can all relate to that very well. laughs Yeah. So what kind of things do you like to read?
Dr. Spond: Anything that’s nonfiction. I like history. I like biographies. Anything that’s nonfiction: current events, recent history, so on and so forth.
Weijia: What’s your favorite dish?
Dr. Spond: Favorite? Oh my Gosh.
Jasmin: Or something that you can cook with conviction.
Dr. Spond: With conviction that I know I’m gonna do a really good job is steak, brisket. If it was my final meal, it would probably be catfish, coleslaw, and hot sauce. Yeah, so those are some of my favorites.
Jasmin: If you ever retire, just open up the kitchen. Southern cooking kitchen. I feel like there’s not enough of those around here. So yeah, I’d definitely go.
Weijia: So a little shift from personal life into your dreams and beliefs. So are there any goals that you’re currently working towards?
Dr. Spond: Yes. It’s my ongoing goal, which is very nebulous, which is to improve in all directions. I’ve never been very big on setting a grand course and following it. I kind of get distracted too easily. So if my transition from engineering to medicine happened out of luck and chance as opposed to grand plan. So I would say my goal is to continue in all directions wherever that leads me.
Weijia: OK, interesting. In terms of healthcare, is there anything that you would like to see?
Dr. Spond: Oh my gosh. OK, let’s see here. I wish that patients would, and I would probably be just as guilty if I hadn’t gone into medicine, would be a little bit more attuned to their own medical health or overall health. Sometimes it’s puzzling why, I ask patients if they ever had surgery, and they said no. And then they have to think and like, “Oh yeah, I had this” If I ever had surgery, I think I would remember, so from the top of my head, that would be the first thing I would say.
Jasmin: I think that kind of plays into just like health literacy. You know, they don’t know that this is something that’s concerning and should be given attention to their healthcare provider, so they don’t mention it. But yeah. Another question I have, this is actually not necessarily on our script, but I’ve always read about how you know people can or medical students for example considering going into anesthesiology. There’s always this saying or a lot of news going around about “oh CRNAs will eventually replace it”. That’s a hot topic now. So I would like to hear your opinion.
Dr. Spond: Sure, sure. They’re very important part of a team, just like Nurse practitioners are very important, important part of a team and primary care. And so it’s no different. You know, they’re valuable components of a team, but yeah I’m not worried about that, no more than than someone going into family practice, Pediatrics, internal medicine, psychiatry, dermatology, list goes on and on.
Jasmin: For me who doesn’t know a lot about anesthesia, anesthesiology. Can you delineate what are the responsibilities of an anesthesiologist versus the CRNA, the daily works,
Dr. Spond: Yeah, absolutely. So CRNA is advanced practice nursing and other states, it would be the PA version and anesthesiology assistant. They’re gonna be the ones in the room who are monitoring the patient; monitoring, reporting during an anesthetic. The physician’s job is to diagnose and treat. The physician job is at the top of the helm, if you will. Often times, it seems like we’re the only physician that looks at the entire patient when they come to the hospital. And again, that kind of goes back to where, I can’t legitimately say, really anything in medicine, I don’t need to know that. I need to know everything. I need to be the absolute best physician for the patient, for my team members, whether it’s nursing anesthetist, whether its residents, whether it’s in another state, anesthesiology assistants. I need to be the absolute best physician I possibly could be.
Weijia: Awesome. That’s cool. And for people like me who are interested in anesthesia, where do you see the field in the next 10, 20, 30 years?
Dr. Spond: I think it’s only going to expand. Basically, at any hospital anywhere in the country, sort of the economic engine of any given hospital is the procedural arena, whether it’s operating room, interventional procedures, whether GI or cardiac, etc. That’s the economic engine of a hospital, and that was really, kind of brought to light with the COVID Pandemic. A lot of hospital functions shut down; people were sent home; etc etc. But the operating suite just kind of has to keep going, for number reasons, to take care of patients. But it it’s also economic generator, and so anesthesiology services are always going to be required in that interventional arena, whether it’s operating room, what we call off size interventional GI, interventional cardiology, etc, etc.
Jasmin: That makes sense because when COVID was hitting, the question always being asked within healthcare was like, “OK, what preoperative or what preoperative testing must a patient go through before they’re like qualified to get their surgery?” It just seemed like hospitals always emphasized on the pre-OP testing because like you said surgeries are such a huge honestly, like revenue generator, for big hospital systems such as UAMS.
Dr. Spond: Exactly. They are. You know, it has to keep moving. And patients with cancer, they need to have an operation, right. So at some point, you know it’s gonna be too late for surgery. So the whole system has to keep moving, even though the COVID pandemic kind of showed that that we kind of slowed a lot, but we kept moving.
Jasmin: So Family Med and internal, I feel like can move to Tele health, but I feel like what you do, can not move to tell telehealth.
Dr. Spond: Exactly. You know, interventional procedures can’t be outsourced. You can’t let a robot do it.
Jasmin: Sounds like some good job security. Now you’re making me think “that’s some really good job.”
Dr. Spond: probably so. I can’t see the future, but probably so.
Jasmin: A good outlook. It would be a good answer to that question.
Weijia: Yeah, that’s good to know. ’cause I’ve heard it being replaced by CRNA; also like modern technology.
Dr. Spond: I had heard that we’re replaced by CRNAs 15 years ago when I was in your seat. And the person I heard on campus, who I have great respect for, he’s 20 years beyond me, and he said he had the same question 35 years ago. Question’s been around forever.
Weijia: Good to know.
Dr. Spond: Yeah. You know, the AI thing. That is probably, frankly, in all of medicine whether it’s certainly about radiology all the time. If you look into radiology, it’s gonna be dominated by AI, I have no idea if that’s true. I got to do a mock interview with an M4 student this past year, and I made-up a question about whether this person was concerned about going into dermatology, whether AI would play a role. And I completely made this up. I didn’t realize that’s a real thing. Google has some sort of app that can diagnose melanomas with great accuracy. So, in all of medicine, I can’t tell you where the future is going to go. It might be. It does take over: AI. That’s something to be aware of, and I don’t think anybody would be sheltered.
Jasmin: It is definitely a thing for pathology. For a bit, I was kind of interested in pathology, and that subject was always brought up. I actually have an app on my phone called Diagnose Us, and it uses AI technology. So medical students or residents or even doctors can join the app, and it will have like pictures of chest X-rays or skin biopsies, and there’s a little practice question or practice session where they’re like train you to look at different diagnosis. So the point of this app is to develop AI to work smarter. You’re not necessarily diagnosing these actual pictures that they’re showing you, but you’re just teaching AI. It’s the manpower of teaching AI, so I definitely think that’s a new forefront, but I think there’s just so many parts of medicine where you just need a pure brain.
Dr. Spond: Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean it’s like there’s been so many things over the last hundred years where we’ve just adapted, from invention of cars, to airplanes, and so on and so forth. We’ve incorporated those things: smartphones, computers, calculators, etc. We’ve benefited. There’s a net benefit. Has it displaced some people from work? Yes, you don’t make horse and buggy carts anymore ‘cause we have cars. But it’s been a huge net benefit to society.
Jasmin: The only thing is, can AI comfort you before surgery? I don’t think so. I think there’s personal aspects that a doctor provides to patients that I don’t think AI can ever really replace so.
Weijia: No AI is gonna tell you “we’re gonna make your day as boring as possible.”
Dr. Spond: I tell patients, you know, I my crystal ball is broken. I try to be a little funny. I said my crystal ball is broken; I can’t see the future. And my magic wand is broken. I can’t metaphorically pull us out of the ditch. So it’s better to stay out of trouble than to get out of trouble. But we’re going to work hard to stay out of trouble.
Jasmin: Um, veering back, I guess, to anesthesia. We went a little tangent about AI. But what advice do you have for medical students, whether they’re pursuing anesthesiology or not pursuing anesthesiology? Like these four years are pretty tough. I know residency gets tougher, but what I advised do you have to set us up for success?
Dr. Spond: Work hard, be bold. Don’t be afraid to make mistakes. Get exposed to as much as you possibly can. Will it all stick the first time you see something? No, but important common stuff. I think Weijia heard me say this morning. If common stuff comes up again and again. And the sooner you can get water, in my mind everything is Cartesian coordinates, right? So on the Y axis we have exposure experience; and the X axis is time. You wanna high arching curve with with as much area under the curve as you possibly can. Will you instantaneously memorize and remember and incorporate everything you hear? No. But will it come up again and again? Then you could scaffold onto what you’ve already heard, yes. So get your hands dirty. Don’t be afraid to make mistakes, safely. Don’t be a wallflower. Read, read, read, read, read. You’re gonna read the rest of your life. I mean, I brought an article that I’m half done with. So I try to read two articles per week. It’s probably grossly under what I need to, but it’s better than nothing.
Jasmin: So I heard that advice from another. I think he was a general surgeon. He reads one article a day before you know, bedtime reading. OK. I feel like I’m backtracking, but I think this popped up. But what made you choose this area of anesthesiology, like academic medicine?
Dr. Spond: You know, I really am, you know, at the root of it all, a big nerd, and I like to learn. And the academic setting really lends itself well to that as you can interact with other learners, and I’m gonna be learning the rest of my life. I say I’m a M18 now I guess, so that just goes to signify that I still consider myself learning. And it’s a environment where I want to be encouraging. Nobody in my family is in medicine. I had an aunt who’s a nurse, but no one in my family is in medicine. And so I just wanted to show other people that if I could do it, they can do it too. Especially coming from a 90 degree turn from engineering.
Weijia: And I just want to say that you packed a lot of good advice all at once. Like with not being a wallflower, and also not being afraid to make mistakes. I think that’s a big thing, especially for us M1. I don’t know how Jasmin feels, but I feel like, for us, we feel like we don’t really know much, I don’t know if I can do that. But really, it’s important to get yourself out there and just start doing things.
Dr. Spond: yeah, exactly
Jasmin: I feel like a lot of times we’re too afraid to be wrong, and that’s the culture that’s cultivated. I wouldn’t even say just with our class. I feel like with a lot of people, a lot of medical students. We’re group of very intelligent people, so we all go through impostor syndrome. But I don’t think we all realize that. And so we’re always so scared to be wrong, And so you think that like, “oh that guy says smartest person in the room,” but really that guys just too afraid to say something that makes his wrong.
Dr. Spond: Exactly, impostor syndrome is very real. I mean, I still have impostor syndrome and maybe I should, I don’t know. But you wanna make mistakes early. What you don’t want to be is a silent wallflower. And then the next thing you know, you’re in M3, and M1 and M2 are looking up to you for the answers, but you just don’t have the answers. You remain quiet. And then you’re a M4 and then more people expect more of you, and you still can kind of keep it hidden. And then you’re an intern. Then you got people above you and below you expecting stuff from me. Then you’re upper level, and people below you and and above you have more have more expectations of you. Rather, stumble and fall and pick yourself up early on. That’s the best thing, so work hard and don’t get a wallflower. Get your hands, metaphorically dirty.
Weijia: And something kind of random, but because I’m on the preceptorship, I was told by one of your residents to ask you about your car. What kind of car do you drive and does it have a seat?
Dr. Spond: I had a car like 20 years ago that did not have air condition and yes my car has air conditioning. I have a 2007 Toyota Camry. And a leopard can’t change his spots. I love my car. And they probably asked you about this because about a month ago and I fixed it, I went forward over a parking bumper in a parking lot, and then I came back over. And it kind of popped this piece of plastic down, so it was kind of dragging for a little bit. I put some tape and the tape fell. So I don’t care. You know, you ever Uncle Buck, the movie? To the to the listeners, if you’ve ever seen Uncle Buck, it’s not quite that bad, but my kids called the Uncle Buck. And I ya’ll should look up Uncle Buck.
Jasmin: My dad has a Toyota Corolla, and something about the plastic… Oh wait, this is not sponsored. laughs No, actually, I remember it kind of came unhinged. And it feels like plastic, and you just got to pop it back in. And my mom drives a 2002 Honda CRV, and she travels for her job. So if it ain’t broke, don’t mean to fix it, don’t replace it.
Dr. Spond: I drive my 2007 Camry and I got it when I was beginning of the M3 and I love my car.
Jasmin: So next one is gonna be a Tesla is what you’re saying.
Dr. Spond: My wife actually has two nice cars,
Dr. Spond: One of them is a hand me down the moment I want it, but I don’t want it. So then it’s becoming our 15 year olds; she’s like, “well, I’ll take it.” That’s not gonna happen; you’re gonna get my Camry.
Jasmin: You have a backup?
Dr. Spond: what else did they tell you to ask?
Weijia: That’s the only one. The AC thing was the big one.
Dr. Spond: I’ve got air conditioning. Yeah, I’ve got air conditioning in my car, thankfully. I did in back in 2002. I had two engineering buddies, and we shared a house over in West Little Rock. And we went two full years with no air conditioning in this house. We rented it. It’s a long story, and there’s a lot of hard headedness and stupidity. everyone laughs And who’s gonna crack first? Who’s gonna complain first? And we went to full summers with no air conditioned house.
Jasmin: In Arkansas
Dr. Spond: And we had good jobs, and we could have bought a new air conditioner. We could have bought the house. But who’s gonna flinch? Not me. That might have been what they were talking about my air conditioner.
Weijia: I think she said your old car before you got your new car did not have air conditioning.
Dr. Spond: Oh yeah, my old car didn’t have air conditioning. So my now wife when we were dating, she lived up in Conway. And I would like take off my undershirt, and just wear a shirt that I wasn’t even going to wear to see her. I’d park at her parking lot of her apartment complex. I’d wipe down with some paper towels and go in. So yeah, my old car didn’t. I’m too proud.
Weijia: Alright, as we’re getting near the end, I wanna make sure we hit all these questions just very quickly. How can a student contact you if they have more questions? If they wanna shadow you?
Dr. Spond: I’m the only Spond at UAMS. So Spond Matthew at UAMS.edu.
Weijia: And is there anything else that we have not covered that you would like our listeners slash students to know?
Dr. Spond: Yeah, absolutely. Just have confidence in yourself. It’s a long, hard slug. You hear sometimes, I hear in people when I was in medical school saying “oh med school’s easy.” And so my two questions to them would be: number 1, did you go? Don’t tell me it’s easy if you haven’t been. And what were your grades? Were you AOA or not? And if you weren’t, then don’t tell me it was easy ‘cause it’s tough, it’s hard. Be proud of yourselves. It’s a long, hard slug. It feels like a sprint at times, but it’s really a marathon, and it is hard, it is difficult. But it’s your long term, durable competitive advantages. It’s what sets you apart from physician assistants, nurses, nurse practitioners, and everything else. There’s only one way to do it, and it’s to go through it. And if I can do it, anybody can do it. I only had two Biology classes where I started in M1 year, freshmen level biology, which some of it included: plants have cell walls. Totally worthless when you get to med school. And then I had a pretty good microbiology class, and that’s all I had. And was I studying scared for most of medical school? Yes. But does that work? Yes. So if I can do it, anybody can do it. And like I said, I’m cheering for you. I think that’s what I try to usually tell people who are in my academic house: I’m cheering for you. It’s tough. It is hard. I didn’t know what I was getting into. Nobody in my family has been through med school. It was kind of the great unknown. The fea of the unknown is the biggest fear there is. So yeah, be proud of yourselves. Keep your chin up, keep working, and you’ll get there. Four years goes by really quick. What your real goal is: someday to be board certified in whatever specialty you enjoy. That’s five, 10 years down the road for most folks who are in med school. But you want to be board certified, active and productive physician in whatever specialty you like. Because we need good family practice doctors. We need good psychiatrists. We need good general surgeons. We need good OBGYNs. We need all you folks.. Whatever somebody is has a passion for, go for it.
Jasmin: I’m so happy this is recorded ’cause then I can just listen back when I’m at my low point. laughs On that note, thank you so much for having this interview with us. And he dropped his e-mail earlier, so everyone feel free to contact him.
Dr. Spond: Yeah. Thank you both. This has been fantastic.
Weijia: Thank you. And listeners, as always, please reach out if you to let us know about your thoughts, concerns, or questions. We’ll see you in the next episode!